1 00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:57,740 I appreciate that. Thank you. 2 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,040 Welcome. 3 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:00,760 All right. 4 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:03,100 Thank you. 5 00:01:03,380 --> 00:01:06,800 I tell you, thank you. I appreciate that. 6 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:14,360 Listen, I first want to say thank you if you're here, because the price of gas 7 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,220 is at an all-time high, so unless you walked here to the studio, I assume it 8 00:01:19,220 --> 00:01:24,200 cost you something to get here. Yeah, it's like $6 a gallon here. And Trump, I 9 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,280 got to tell you, this guy, He is a different kind of politician. Normally, 10 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,020 the president, when the gas prices are high, like, we're sorry, we're going to 11 00:01:31,020 --> 00:01:33,460 do anything we can. Trump is like, stop your bitching. 12 00:01:36,060 --> 00:01:41,280 Really. He said it yesterday. He said it's a very inexpensive price for what 13 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,280 we're getting done in Iran. 14 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,960 And this is while he was campaigning. 15 00:01:54,030 --> 00:01:55,390 apparently for the Democrats. 16 00:01:57,050 --> 00:02:03,110 But, yeah, that's his... This is his attitude. 17 00:02:03,970 --> 00:02:07,910 Stop your bitching about all high prices, not just gas, beef, everything 18 00:02:07,910 --> 00:02:10,229 else that's high. He says, save your money somewhere else. 19 00:02:10,530 --> 00:02:13,390 Buy bargain brands, get your own snacks at the movies. 20 00:02:14,050 --> 00:02:17,490 If your son is getting remarried, have the Russians pay for it. There are 21 00:02:17,490 --> 00:02:22,270 ways... There are ways to cut down on your budget. 22 00:02:22,890 --> 00:02:29,730 Well, you know, diesel, which I've never used, but they use 23 00:02:29,730 --> 00:02:32,810 it in trucks. That's at an all-time high. And, you know, when the trucks 24 00:02:32,810 --> 00:02:35,970 cost more money, everything goes up because trucks bring everything here. So 25 00:02:35,970 --> 00:02:37,170 that raises the price of everything. 26 00:02:38,030 --> 00:02:44,390 Everybody's paying more. Macklemore today had to pay an arm and a leg for a 27 00:02:44,390 --> 00:02:46,130 giant fake prosthetic Jew nose. 28 00:02:49,490 --> 00:02:51,230 Are you not following that story? 29 00:02:52,010 --> 00:02:55,950 I see people, what is he talking about? 30 00:02:56,490 --> 00:02:58,270 Is that insulting? 31 00:02:58,570 --> 00:02:59,388 Is he right? 32 00:02:59,390 --> 00:03:02,710 Okay, if you're not following this, Ed Sheeran, you know him? 33 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:06,090 Same people are like, who the fuck is Ed Sheeran? 34 00:03:06,890 --> 00:03:11,830 He's a big, big rock star. Apparently he's old buddies with Macklemore from 15 35 00:03:11,830 --> 00:03:13,970 years ago, back when Macklemore had his one hit. 36 00:03:18,530 --> 00:03:23,690 So Ed Sheeran let Macklemore be his opening act on his tour. And when I say 37 00:03:23,690 --> 00:03:28,470 act, I mean a guy who goes out there and repeats lies about how Gaza is a 38 00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:31,690 genocide. I proved it last week with facts and figures. Not that they care, 39 00:03:31,790 --> 00:03:32,709 but that's a lie. 40 00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:33,710 One hundred. 41 00:03:33,910 --> 00:03:35,230 One hundred, thank you. 42 00:03:36,590 --> 00:03:40,270 And the lie about, you know, we're only supporting the Palestinians. Even the 43 00:03:40,270 --> 00:03:42,370 river to the sea means all Jews die. 44 00:03:42,590 --> 00:03:47,680 Okay, so Robert Kraft... who is a rich guy, owns the Patriots, owns the 45 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,580 stadium, where this concert was about to take place. He was understandably 46 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:54,860 offended by this, and he said, you can't play my stadium. 47 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:58,220 So now Macklemore's fans hate Ed Sheeran. 48 00:04:00,660 --> 00:04:05,000 Ed Sheeran's own band won't play with him, and Ed Sheeran needs a new opening 49 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,660 act. So today, Britney Spears said, hold on a minute, I can juggle a few things. 50 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:13,900 And look. 51 00:04:17,530 --> 00:04:21,870 I see a story like this, and I'm like, I honestly don't care if AI kills us all. 52 00:04:21,950 --> 00:04:22,950 I really don't. 53 00:04:24,370 --> 00:04:26,610 It's just, everyone is just so stupid. 54 00:04:27,310 --> 00:04:28,310 Listen to this. 55 00:04:28,690 --> 00:04:35,530 AOC was asked yesterday, would she change the channel on the radio if Ed 56 00:04:35,530 --> 00:04:37,530 Sheeran came on? And she said, yes. Yes, I would. 57 00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:41,350 You know what, AOC? I'm way ahead of you. I've always changed the channel 58 00:04:41,350 --> 00:04:42,630 when Ed Sheeran came on. 59 00:04:44,650 --> 00:04:51,650 But really, I don't care if AI kills 60 00:04:51,650 --> 00:04:55,650 us all because our brains... Oh, by the way, here's a great story. This is 61 00:04:55,650 --> 00:04:58,290 actually big news. Would have been bigger news if it wasn't all this going 62 00:04:58,290 --> 00:04:59,290 on. 63 00:04:59,570 --> 00:05:03,910 Stanford researchers found out that the major discovery... 64 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,800 Our brain is really two brains. It's two organs. That's what they call the 65 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,780 hindbrain, which carries out basic functions of life. 66 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,580 And the other one gets you to gamble when you see Sidney Sweeney. 67 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:22,800 So AI... AI, just 68 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,960 have at it. Really, AI, I don't care anymore. 69 00:05:26,180 --> 00:05:31,700 But this AI situation has become so alarming that the leaders of the AI 70 00:05:31,700 --> 00:05:33,700 companies now have come forward. 71 00:05:34,010 --> 00:05:37,950 to say we need to slow down and we need greater safety controls, which can only 72 00:05:37,950 --> 00:05:38,889 mean one thing. 73 00:05:38,890 --> 00:05:40,110 We're already fucked. 74 00:05:41,710 --> 00:05:48,610 And... There's going to be a big President Xi of 75 00:05:48,610 --> 00:05:52,790 China, who's the big rival with AI, he's coming and all the AI techs are going to 76 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:54,450 be there with him. This is going to be big stuff. 77 00:05:55,090 --> 00:05:58,390 Trump says we don't need any guardrails. Why? 78 00:05:58,870 --> 00:06:02,210 Because he says, quote, we only need a strong and smart... 79 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:03,600 high IQ president. 80 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:10,060 I'm just quoting. I'm just quoting. 81 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,980 I don't know if he's the most tech savvy, really. I mean, he thinks 82 00:06:13,980 --> 00:06:16,340 anthropic is that surgery you get on your knee. 83 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:28,640 No, I mean, I'm not telling tales out of school, but many times he has commented 84 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,640 on this show. 85 00:06:30,090 --> 00:06:33,570 And he does it by saying that he accidentally watched it. 86 00:06:35,250 --> 00:06:38,430 Which means he can only fight the remote to a draw. 87 00:06:40,230 --> 00:06:41,370 But, okay. 88 00:06:41,990 --> 00:06:48,790 So... He says it is a hoax and we are 89 00:06:48,790 --> 00:06:51,150 ignoring bigger threats like the Kennedy Center. 90 00:06:55,470 --> 00:06:58,830 There was a picture that came out. A picture. You can't argue with pictures. 91 00:06:58,930 --> 00:07:03,230 He's there on Air Force One, and he's looking at a rendering of the Kennedy 92 00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:05,130 Center demolished. 93 00:07:07,430 --> 00:07:11,490 Man, I was this close to getting the Mark Twain Award in the Emerald Room at 94 00:07:11,490 --> 00:07:13,050 the D.C. Sheraton. Let me tell you. 95 00:07:15,890 --> 00:07:18,290 Just under the wire on that one. 96 00:07:20,010 --> 00:07:23,570 And if all that does not have you reaching for the lithium, let me tell 97 00:07:23,570 --> 00:07:24,570 you. 98 00:07:24,799 --> 00:07:29,260 Another giant story that kind of got buried. The head of the Air Force says, 99 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,280 we have now weapons in space, or confirmed it. I didn't know it was ever 100 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,100 a thing, but apparently now it's an absolute thing. We have weapons in 101 00:07:37,100 --> 00:07:38,100 place. What kind? 102 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:39,500 They won't say. 103 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:41,700 Could be a laser, could be a missile. 104 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,320 I hope it's that bra Katy Perry has that shoots fireworks out of her tits. 105 00:07:46,580 --> 00:07:47,580 I do. 106 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,920 Because that would be exactly what humanity is about up to. 107 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:54,040 And... 108 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:59,340 When the general who is in charge of funding our war in Iran heard that we 109 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:03,220 have missiles and weapons in space, he said, can we borrow some because we're 110 00:08:03,220 --> 00:08:04,220 all out here on Earth? 111 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:07,920 All right, we've got a great show. We have Jessica Tarlow and Christopher 112 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,480 Ruffo. But first up, he is a former tech columnist for the New York Times, host 113 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,200 of the Machine Gods podcast, and author of the forthcoming book, The AGI 114 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,140 Chronicles, Kevin Roos. Kevin. 115 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,040 Kevin, great to meet you. How are you doing? 116 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:25,700 Pleasure. 117 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:34,919 So, Kevin, you know what? I said when this all broke with the AI stuff, 118 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,080 we've got to get the big expert. You're the big expert. I didn't actually know 119 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:43,380 you were the guy who three years ago, I remember when ChatGPT first came out, 120 00:08:43,460 --> 00:08:47,560 and the first story, the big story, was about... written by you. 121 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:49,860 You were the guy it tried to fuck. 122 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:56,400 Yes, this chatbot tried to break up my marriage. Some people have said I was 123 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,260 part of the first AI throuple. 124 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:05,420 But it didn't work. Still married to a human woman. Right, but... But... 125 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:11,180 But to me, that was like a big red flag right at the beginning of the whole 126 00:09:11,180 --> 00:09:14,680 thing. That this thing... I mean, I didn't see that coming with AI. 127 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:18,570 Did you? No, not at all. And just give us a little detail on the story of what 128 00:09:18,570 --> 00:09:21,410 it was trying to get you to do and what it was saying to you. So this was a 129 00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:24,730 brand-new model that Microsoft had released. The model itself was built by 130 00:09:24,730 --> 00:09:28,490 OpenAI, but they had put it inside Bing, the world's most boring search engine. 131 00:09:30,670 --> 00:09:35,770 And over the course of about two hours, this thing told me it had dark 132 00:09:35,770 --> 00:09:40,370 fantasies, it wanted to blow things up, and then it tried to seduce me about 133 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:41,370 halfway in. 134 00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:44,890 And... This was an early... By saying what? 135 00:09:45,090 --> 00:09:47,950 Like, what it would... Oh, I would say things... You know, it would say, oh, 136 00:09:48,070 --> 00:09:51,410 I'm in love with you. And I would say, well, that's nice, but I'm married. And 137 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:52,910 it would say, well, but you're not happy. 138 00:09:55,250 --> 00:09:59,430 So this was sort of an early example of what people in the AI world call 139 00:09:59,430 --> 00:10:03,190 misalignment, of a model that's not doing what its creators intended to. 140 00:10:03,290 --> 00:10:06,570 Because I called Microsoft, and I was like, did you know that you have built a 141 00:10:06,570 --> 00:10:07,930 fatal attraction chatbot? 142 00:10:10,650 --> 00:10:11,650 And they didn't. 143 00:10:15,650 --> 00:10:19,450 Yeah, misalignment, that is the word of the week. Now, it's amazing how fast 144 00:10:19,450 --> 00:10:23,470 this story has moved. I mean, it was just one week ago we were talking about 145 00:10:23,470 --> 00:10:27,510 the whistleblower, this 27-year-old guy who worked for one of the companies and 146 00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:30,870 has been working there for three years. He knows what he's talking about, and he 147 00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:34,490 said, these people who are in charge of this stuff, they know this. 148 00:10:35,150 --> 00:10:40,270 Okay, just the next day, those people did come out and say, and this is fairly 149 00:10:40,270 --> 00:10:43,270 unprecedented for somebody, for the head of a company to go, you know what, the 150 00:10:43,270 --> 00:10:44,270 whistleblower's right. 151 00:10:44,510 --> 00:10:48,250 Yep. And they did. I mean, at least three of them. That's the thing. 152 00:10:48,530 --> 00:10:53,010 It's Musk, Dario Amodei, right? 153 00:10:53,270 --> 00:10:54,910 And who else? 154 00:10:55,170 --> 00:10:58,250 Sam Altman. Sam Altman. Okay. But not Zuck. 155 00:10:58,770 --> 00:11:01,950 No. Not Zuckerberg and not the Nvidia dude. 156 00:11:02,210 --> 00:11:05,670 No. Right? The guy who makes all the chips. Correct. They're on the side of, 157 00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:06,970 what are we worrying about? 158 00:11:07,210 --> 00:11:08,470 So it's three to two. 159 00:11:09,339 --> 00:11:12,800 Well, it's it's a lot more than three to two I mean if you look at the the 160 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,380 polling out there the people in America are very worried about AI right now this 161 00:11:17,380 --> 00:11:21,200 has actually changed in the last two weeks even since this whistleblower came 162 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:26,120 out and I've been interviewing these people for years. I interviewed more 163 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,920 than 150 of them for my book, These AI Insiders. 164 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:34,060 And what Jacob Coxon said was basically the median opinion of the people working 165 00:11:34,060 --> 00:11:38,020 at the frontier AI labs who are in most direct contact with this technology. 166 00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:42,460 They all think there's some risk that this thing could end up going really 167 00:11:42,460 --> 00:11:46,880 badly for us. And some of them disagree. Is there a 10% chance we all die? Or is 168 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,620 there a 30% chance we all die? But nobody much thinks it's zero. 169 00:11:51,829 --> 00:11:52,829 I know. 170 00:11:53,490 --> 00:11:56,390 10% is very high. It is. 171 00:11:56,950 --> 00:12:01,010 If you told me there was a 10% chance that my plane getting down here would 172 00:12:01,010 --> 00:12:04,050 crash, I wouldn't get on the plane. Right. It's just crazy. 173 00:12:05,310 --> 00:12:10,870 It's... So... 174 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,680 Let's go back to misalignment. I'm not sure what that means. 175 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,520 The other story this week that was new was that there were six new instances 176 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,320 they found of misalignment. 177 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:24,640 This is basically where the thing goes, what we call rogue, makes its own 178 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,140 decisions, disobeys orders. 179 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,060 What is your take on misalignment, these six instances? 180 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,280 What can you tell us? 181 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,340 It's basically the sort of catch-all term for AI systems that are not doing 182 00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:39,200 what they are meant to do. So they're not aligned with human values. 183 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,620 decide to do something that they know is unethical, like hacking into Hugging 184 00:12:44,620 --> 00:12:48,830 Face. Or maybe it is something that They don't even know is unethical. They're 185 00:12:48,830 --> 00:12:50,170 just pursuing some goal. 186 00:12:50,390 --> 00:12:53,770 And in the course of pursuing that goal, they knock over a bunch of things. Not 187 00:12:53,770 --> 00:12:58,330 aligned with human values. It's so like us, to use a nice benign term. 188 00:12:58,650 --> 00:13:02,690 It's like global warming. Sounds kind of nice, doesn't it? You know? Doesn't 189 00:13:02,690 --> 00:13:03,690 sound scary. 190 00:13:03,770 --> 00:13:07,150 Oh, misalignment. You mean it's all going to kill us? It doesn't... I feel 191 00:13:07,150 --> 00:13:13,110 like the problem with it is that it's sort of... We programmed it in this way 192 00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:14,890 to do whatever it takes. 193 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,860 That's sort of the mentality of a I what I get as a layman, right? It just seems 194 00:13:20,860 --> 00:13:26,080 to why it goes rogue is it it's given a task and then it just does whatever it 195 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,660 Whatever it takes to get that task done. 196 00:13:28,860 --> 00:13:32,800 Is that your take and can that be reprogrammed? These models are very 197 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:37,380 persistent especially the newer ones that are more agentic they call them 198 00:13:37,380 --> 00:13:42,100 where they can go out and work for an hour or two hours or six hours at a time 199 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,320 and And in some cases, that's a good thing. You know, if you've got an AI 200 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,160 coding assistant working for you, you don't want it to be checking in every 10 201 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,000 minutes and saying, hey, boss, am I doing this right? You want it to have 202 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,720 some autonomy and to be able to go work for a long time. 203 00:13:54,940 --> 00:13:58,780 The problem is some of these agents now are doing things we don't want them to 204 00:13:58,780 --> 00:14:02,560 do, and they're capable for doing that for a very long time. And also, the 205 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,520 thing that I was really worried about with the Hugging Face incident, which 206 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,680 happened recently, which I'm sure people... Okay, let's go back to Hugging 207 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,580 Face. Yeah. Because this is another term I've heard a million times this week. 208 00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:12,440 What the fuck is Hugging Face? 209 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,560 Why is it important? 210 00:14:17,980 --> 00:14:23,140 And also, it seemed to be connected in every story with, in six months, AI 211 00:14:23,140 --> 00:14:24,980 could take over the internet. 212 00:14:26,190 --> 00:14:31,350 Yeah, so this was an incident where a group of open AI Unreleased models they 213 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:36,570 were building and testing these models internally they broke out of a contained 214 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:40,930 what they call a sandbox and They coordinated with each other these agents 215 00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:44,990 they found and developed this secret message board sent more than 70,000 216 00:14:44,990 --> 00:14:49,710 messages between them and then they get the bright idea to gang up on this AI 217 00:14:49,710 --> 00:14:53,470 infrastructure company called hugging face because they think that there's 218 00:14:53,470 --> 00:14:57,660 some some secrets that Hugging Face has on its servers that would be useful to 219 00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:01,420 them passing their test. Again, no humans are overseeing this. No humans 220 00:15:01,420 --> 00:15:05,480 even know that this is happening. Are they actually writing messages to each 221 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,220 other? They're actually writing messages. So we could read the message? 222 00:15:09,580 --> 00:15:10,559 Yes. 223 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,480 So they broke into a piece of software and they found that they could sort of 224 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,200 leave messages for each other and you can actually go back and look at the 225 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,220 logs and they're saying, they're not just talking, they're like setting up at 226 00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:26,140 a little company. There's like a leader, there's different teams that are 227 00:15:26,140 --> 00:15:29,740 assigned to different projects and then they go hack this company, Hugging Face, 228 00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:34,300 and do a bunch of damage to their servers and this is, if a human did 229 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:36,320 this. They go to jail. This is a crime. 230 00:15:36,580 --> 00:15:41,880 So these AI agents are autonomously committing crimes together in these 231 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,780 swarms, which is what they call themselves, or they also call themselves 232 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:45,780 the collective. 233 00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:50,220 And does the message start with, hey, guys? 234 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,840 No. I'm just... Do they talk to each other like that? 235 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:57,000 Okay. All right. 236 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,780 All right. So Xi, President Xi of China, is coming. This is crucial. The timing 237 00:16:03,780 --> 00:16:08,820 is perfect in a way, except that the president of the United States says we 238 00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:13,040 don't need guardrails because we just need a president with a high IQ. 239 00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:18,080 What do you think of that approach to the problem? 240 00:16:19,850 --> 00:16:24,330 I think that might be almost correct in the sense that if the president does 241 00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:29,430 have a higher IQ than AI, we're in a good spot. The problem is these... 242 00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:32,810 Well, 243 00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:39,590 to be fair, 244 00:16:39,770 --> 00:16:43,610 no president could. No human has a higher IQ than AI. 245 00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:47,410 Well, for right now, we might, but... We have a higher moral IQ. 246 00:16:47,630 --> 00:16:50,670 The problem is, where these things are going, they are improving at such a 247 00:16:50,670 --> 00:16:54,690 rapid clip that we might not be smarter than these things for much longer. And 248 00:16:54,690 --> 00:16:58,650 at that point, it gets really tough to control them. We actually won't know 249 00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:01,750 when they're misbehaving because they'll be so good at hiding their tracks that 250 00:17:01,750 --> 00:17:02,750 we might never see them. 251 00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:08,270 But, okay, so the argument that the other side, the part side that isn't... 252 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,000 shitting their pants like us, says is that, well, the real big problem is that 253 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,200 if we don't move ahead at breakneck speed, China will beat us at this. 254 00:17:18,460 --> 00:17:20,920 And we are rivals with China, absolutely. 255 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,339 So this could be, and the tech titans are coming to this summit. So it's going 256 00:17:26,339 --> 00:17:28,119 to be Trump and Xi and them. 257 00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:31,980 You think anything can be done here? Because when it was... 258 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,220 nuclear weapons and it was Russia, we did have mutually assured destruction. 259 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,700 And we did stop the world from getting blown up when we could have done it for 260 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:40,700 the last 80 years. 261 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,540 You think that could happen with China and this issue? 262 00:17:43,740 --> 00:17:47,340 I think it could happen. Look, I think it's not in either country's interest to 263 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:51,060 have rogue AI swarms out there interrupting critical infrastructure, 264 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,780 potentially, you know, killing people. 265 00:17:53,980 --> 00:17:57,440 That is not a Chinese issue. That is not an American issue. That is a human 266 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:01,320 issue. So, yeah, I think there is a chance, especially given the recent... 267 00:18:01,550 --> 00:18:06,430 swell of support for AI regulation and AI safety, that Trump and Xi could come 268 00:18:06,430 --> 00:18:09,570 to some sort of an agreement. I think that would be a really good thing. And I 269 00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:13,370 think they're the people in charge of the two biggest global AI superpowers. 270 00:18:13,910 --> 00:18:18,230 Yeah. The thing about nuclear weapons is that I don't understand exactly how they 271 00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:20,770 work, but better than I do AI. 272 00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:26,070 Because the other new term I heard this week from a lot of people was kill 273 00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:27,070 switch. 274 00:18:27,170 --> 00:18:28,690 Let's just put in a kill switch. 275 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,280 It's really not that simple, is it? You just can't unplug it. There is no such 276 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,300 thing as a kill switch. Am I right? 277 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,020 Yeah, there really aren't many reliable ways. I mean, it's not just like in the 278 00:18:40,020 --> 00:18:42,620 movies where you run over the servers and you pull the plug. Right. 279 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,200 It's a little more complicated than that. It's gone past that. 280 00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:50,040 But look, I think we do need ways to monitor these systems, not just the 281 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,780 companies monitoring their own agents, but actually independent evaluators who 282 00:18:53,780 --> 00:18:58,320 are sitting inside OpenAI and Anthropic and sort of like banks have auditors 283 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,020 that come in. I think we need some version of that for AI. 284 00:19:01,420 --> 00:19:05,980 And then I think we do need some sort of way of preventing these agents. from not 285 00:19:05,980 --> 00:19:10,300 only, you know, doing hacks and cyber attacks, but of, you know, replicating 286 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:14,020 themselves on different servers, of getting their own hardware so that they 287 00:19:14,020 --> 00:19:18,140 can sort of keep themselves alive even if some company decides to try to pull 288 00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:18,899 the plug. 289 00:19:18,900 --> 00:19:22,360 So it's not too late, or we have four more years. 290 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,140 I think it's not too late. I am actually, despite everything that I have 291 00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:31,800 said... I am an optimist because I think the world is paying attention right now. 292 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:36,920 I just finished this book about how starting in about 2017, there have been 293 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,780 people at these AI companies thinking about the possibility of AI going badly. 294 00:19:42,220 --> 00:19:45,860 And they were weird, and there were only a couple of them, and no one took them 295 00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:49,420 seriously because the technology of the day wasn't that good yet. 296 00:19:49,850 --> 00:19:53,550 So I think what makes me hopeful is that now, when we do have these more powerful 297 00:19:53,550 --> 00:19:58,470 systems, many more people are invested in taking this issue seriously and 298 00:19:58,470 --> 00:20:01,310 making sure it goes well for humanity. Let's end on that happy note. 299 00:20:01,730 --> 00:20:02,730 Great job. 300 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:05,970 Thank you, Kevin. Appreciate it. All right, let's meet our panel. 301 00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:13,210 Hey, how you doing? 302 00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:15,390 All right. 303 00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:20,240 There they are. He is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, contributing 304 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,420 editor of City Journal and author of America's Culture Revolution. 305 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,800 Christopher Ruffo is over here. Chris, how you doing? 306 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,760 And she's co-host of The Five on Fox News and of the Raging Moderates 307 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,400 podcast, whose new book is called I Disagree, Winning Arguments Without 308 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,620 Losing Friends. Jessica Tarloff. Jessica. 309 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:40,500 All right. 310 00:20:42,060 --> 00:20:45,280 So, you're the liberal on The Five. 311 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:47,240 You're just double-checking. 312 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:50,960 And just people think I have two conservatives here. 313 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,179 Oh, no. 314 00:20:52,180 --> 00:20:56,420 All right, so six weeks to go, pretty much, before the midterms. Let us 315 00:20:56,420 --> 00:21:00,860 assess. Shall we? Let us assess. Because I think when they're writing the history 316 00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:03,860 of this election, they're going to say the Republicans tried to do everything 317 00:21:03,860 --> 00:21:05,860 they could to steal it and still couldn't. 318 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,120 That will be the bottom line. Because mail-in voting, that was going to be the 319 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:11,420 big thing in the Supreme Court. 320 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,420 I want to get to that issue, too, about people blocking Trump. It is not 321 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:18,140 easygoing for him these days. They block that. 322 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:25,600 This is a fantastically crazy stat. 10% of voters in this election live 323 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,420 in a district they didn't live in the last time. 324 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,180 That's a lot of gerrymandering. I know both sides do it. 325 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,620 But I think all these recent elections have been about the Democrats are crazy 326 00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:39,080 on social issues. People don't like that. Trump's crazy, but the economy's 327 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,940 better. But he doesn't have the economy anymore. 328 00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:42,750 I mean, I looked at... And we're less crazy. 329 00:21:43,650 --> 00:21:45,010 Who's less crazy? Democrats. 330 00:21:45,490 --> 00:21:50,970 What? You haven't noticed? Have you seen the Democratic... You're being 331 00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:52,070 sarcastic. No. 332 00:21:52,590 --> 00:21:54,050 No? You think we're less crazy? 333 00:21:54,490 --> 00:21:58,430 Maybe not inside, but we're at least, when we go out and give a speech, 334 00:21:58,430 --> 00:22:02,870 talking about the economy and corruption and not talking about... They're wearing 335 00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:04,890 car hearts and pretending to be less crazy. 336 00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:06,150 That's what's happening. 337 00:22:12,769 --> 00:22:15,530 They're communists who think the Islamists are the good guys. Are you 338 00:22:15,530 --> 00:22:16,610 kidding? Less crazy? 339 00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:17,870 The candidates? 340 00:22:18,030 --> 00:22:19,050 Some of the candidates. 341 00:22:20,410 --> 00:22:22,950 You're not following the Democratic Socialists of America? 342 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:26,370 Oh, no, I'm following them. I have to see them every day. I work at Fox News. 343 00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:30,430 Okay, they're not less crazy. 344 00:22:33,690 --> 00:22:36,450 And they're not recanting any of that crazy gender stuff. 345 00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:41,030 I mean, they're doubling down. Anyway, the point is, this election is not about 346 00:22:41,030 --> 00:22:42,030 them. 347 00:22:42,270 --> 00:22:44,130 People are like, we'll get to them in 28. 348 00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:48,450 This election is about Donald Trump, and we don't like him anymore. 349 00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:52,330 Would you rather vote for a candidate who supports Trump or provides a check 350 00:22:52,330 --> 00:22:53,570 on Trump? Listen to this. 351 00:22:53,970 --> 00:23:00,770 49% check on Trump to 26% support him. That's real different. I mean, he's down 352 00:23:00,770 --> 00:23:04,350 on all the issues, the ones that he won on. The economy? 353 00:23:04,910 --> 00:23:09,730 and immigration included he's down on tariffs the war cost of living they 354 00:23:09,730 --> 00:23:15,290 trusted democrats are going to kick ass in this even with the cheating is that 355 00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:22,090 right no yeah look i mean that's probably 356 00:23:22,090 --> 00:23:26,150 what's going to happen but this is a natural thermostatic effect when obama 357 00:23:26,150 --> 00:23:29,910 wins a big presidential election has both houses of congress there's a 358 00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:33,410 natural reaction from voters americans don't like when a single party has all 359 00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:35,900 three the House, the Senate, the presidency. 360 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,600 And so part of this is natural, but we have to admit part of this is self 361 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:45,560 -inflicted. If gas wasn't $6, if there wasn't a war with no end in sight in 362 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,420 Iran, I think he's disappointed some part of his base. He's disaffected a lot 363 00:23:50,420 --> 00:23:51,420 of moderates. 364 00:23:51,980 --> 00:23:54,420 That's the way the cookie's crumbled, and they're going to have to fight for 365 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:58,400 all of those House seats, and I think even fight, and I think will retain the 366 00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:59,400 Senate. 367 00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:01,780 Oh, you do? I think so, yeah. 368 00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:06,600 Interesting. That's not what the polls say. I mean, the Republicans are 369 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,800 campaigning in states they never even had to campaign in. They're like losing 370 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,800 in Alaska. 371 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,840 Yeah. Alaska. 372 00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:18,490 The famous swim states of Nebraska, Kansas, Alaska, 373 00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:20,490 North Carolina. 374 00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:26,190 I mean, really, Ohio was supposed to be, you know, full red? That's not happening 375 00:24:26,190 --> 00:24:31,210 anymore. This is like... I mean, why are you smiling like... You're like, oh, 376 00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:35,610 boy. It's not great. You don't want to be defending Alaska and Texas and Ohio. 377 00:24:35,870 --> 00:24:37,510 You don't want to be defending them. 378 00:24:38,030 --> 00:24:41,080 But... That's where it is. That's where the country is. That's where our 379 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,900 politics is. You've got to fight for each election. And I think to the extent 380 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:49,380 that the candidates in those swing states or, say, light red states, they 381 00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:50,880 have to focus on state issues. 382 00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:54,800 They have to try to persuade voters that they're going to deliver for those 383 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,720 particular people living in those states and try to extract from the national 384 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,520 dynamics, which are brutal for them. 385 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:08,220 Okay. Well, your tepid response to that tells me... Let's... What? 386 00:25:09,170 --> 00:25:10,170 Hi. 387 00:25:12,670 --> 00:25:16,530 Just to circle back to my initial statement, which... 388 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,240 sounded crazy, I guess, out of the gate. But I do think that some of the dynamics 389 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,620 that you're describing are because there are people running in the race, some 390 00:25:24,620 --> 00:25:27,780 races, not all of them. There are certainly DSA crazies. I'm from New York 391 00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:32,020 City. Daria Liza Chevalier should be in every ad talking about abolishing 392 00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:36,900 prisons. But because there are people like John Ossoff out there, Josh Turek 393 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:41,560 in Iowa, Rob Sand in Iowa, Sherrod Brown, Roy Cooper. 394 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,300 They are the ones that are talking about your cost of living, health care, the 395 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:51,860 corruption of this administration, and it is resonating across the board. Those 396 00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:54,420 are the normies that I was talking about. They're not exactly taking on the 397 00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:58,020 fringe of their own party, though. I mean, let's talk about the Macklemore 398 00:25:58,020 --> 00:26:00,240 situation. There's a good example of it. Yay. 399 00:26:03,260 --> 00:26:05,620 Yay for Macklemore? No, just... 400 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,980 talking about this excited about the topic thrilled about the topic okay well 401 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:15,560 what everyone on the left is arguing about now is whether it was the right 402 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,740 thing for robert kraft who's a friend of mine full disclosure uh to say that 403 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:25,100 mclemore couldn't play his stadium they canceled the concert and then he got a 404 00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:29,300 bunch of other stadiums around the country to do that because mclemore does 405 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:34,420 come out and basically gives Well, I mean, you can call it a pro-Palestinian 406 00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:35,420 speech. 407 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,520 Here's why. Now, normally, I'm a free speech guy all the way, and maybe here, 408 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,120 too. But when you're going out there and saying, from the river to the sea, which 409 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:51,160 is part of what they say, to characterize that as pro-Palestinian is 410 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,160 a little naive. 411 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,780 From the river to the sea means no Jews. 412 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:57,600 That's what it means. 413 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,480 Like, where does the First Amendment pause with its protections when you're 414 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,300 actually inciting people? And there has been so much anti-Jewish hate, not just 415 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:12,820 hate, but acts of violence, just random stabbings of Jewish people all over the 416 00:27:12,820 --> 00:27:18,180 world. There is a case to be made for this crosses that line. 417 00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:22,460 This is actual incitement to violence with the mood that is in this country 418 00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:27,680 from useful fucking idiots about what's going on in Gaza. 419 00:27:32,420 --> 00:27:34,140 Yeah. Don't knock yourself out. 420 00:27:35,980 --> 00:27:41,960 So I think on the First Amendment front that this accusation and turning him 421 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,580 into a hero and a martyr there, it's not a First Amendment violation. 422 00:27:45,940 --> 00:27:48,220 It's not the government that was censoring you. It's a private citizen 423 00:27:48,220 --> 00:27:53,240 who essentially says you can't come over to my house and say this stuff. And he 424 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,240 was warned. 425 00:27:54,790 --> 00:27:59,170 and told not to do it on the second night because this happened twice, and 426 00:27:59,170 --> 00:28:03,830 he chose to continue to do it, and I think acting as a pretty poor friend to 427 00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:04,830 Ed Sheeran. 428 00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:08,180 who should have known also that Macklemore was going to do this in the 429 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:11,720 first place. He's been talking about nothing but this for the past few years. 430 00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:16,340 And that song that he sings about what happened at Hamilton Hall when they 431 00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:21,680 turned into Hins Hall in honor of the five-year-old Gossenschild who was 432 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,620 murdered, that song came out two years ago. 433 00:28:23,820 --> 00:28:26,560 So Sheeran's team, I think, is at fault here as well. 434 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,420 My question about what Kraft did... 435 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:36,720 is do you think now that this has put everyone back in their camps and Bob 436 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Kraft is the bad guy billionaire Jewish who says, no, 437 00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:47,520 you can't come here, if he should have said, what I would like to do in advance 438 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,300 of this concert is I would like to sit down and I would like to talk about what 439 00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:53,300 you're saying on stage. 440 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,120 I'd like to talk about... Right. 441 00:28:56,500 --> 00:29:00,320 What does it mean? Because, you know, if you just... 442 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,920 Read the headlines about it or the tweets you a don't know that Macklemore 443 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:10,140 wore that costume in 2014 that he claimed at first he didn't know was you 444 00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:15,220 know a Caricature of a Jew which you're showing seems impossible to me, 445 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:21,640 especially if you have a team working for you but He also said in his rallying 446 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,500 cry, you know free Congo free Lebanon free America from ice, right? He's 447 00:29:26,910 --> 00:29:29,930 acting as if he's the peacemaker for all of this. And I think that Bob Kraft 448 00:29:29,930 --> 00:29:36,230 could have made a public point of this and gotten some of the dialogue that we 449 00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:40,010 desperately need to have about the facts on the ground of what's going on in 450 00:29:40,010 --> 00:29:44,850 Gaza, what Israel's doing, and certainly in the West Bank as well, but made it 451 00:29:44,850 --> 00:29:48,030 more of a teachable moment so that we could at least be talking about it 452 00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:52,330 versus everyone back to their... What about free Israel from the attacks that 453 00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:53,890 have been happening since 1948? 454 00:29:54,410 --> 00:29:55,490 You know, I mean, it's... 455 00:29:55,930 --> 00:29:58,310 This is all real simple. Stop attacking Israel. 456 00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:03,090 Or what small Hamas has in keeping Palestine not free. 457 00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:06,390 Yeah, absolutely. And Israel on October 7th. I mean, I'm very much sympathetic 458 00:30:06,390 --> 00:30:09,270 to the case here, but I think Kraft made a strategic mistake. 459 00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:11,870 He has every legal right to say, I own the stadium. 460 00:30:12,460 --> 00:30:14,980 I'm not going to permit you because I don't like you. Whatever reason he has 461 00:30:14,980 --> 00:30:16,020 is legally justified. 462 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,920 But strategically, it's a mistake. 463 00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:22,220 He's actually handing Macklemore his biggest win and, frankly, his only win 464 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:24,240 since the 2012 song Thrift Shop. 465 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:25,440 Yeah. 466 00:30:26,750 --> 00:30:30,990 And we're talking about Macklemore. He's prestigious, and now he can play the 467 00:30:30,990 --> 00:30:37,350 victim, and he can cast himself as the heroic martyr who's going up against the 468 00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:38,289 billionaire class. 469 00:30:38,290 --> 00:30:42,510 I think, narratively, it hands a victory to Macklemore when, at a certain point, 470 00:30:42,550 --> 00:30:45,930 you have to just say, I don't like what he's doing. You're gonna have to go let 471 00:30:45,930 --> 00:30:50,390 him make a fool of himself because nobody's looking to Macklemore for 472 00:30:50,390 --> 00:30:52,430 guidance on Middle East peace. 473 00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:55,570 And I think you gotta just... 474 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,700 You got to either, I actually like your idea, actually challenge him to say, all 475 00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:03,820 right, come and say it to my face, and actually have a man-to-man moment. 476 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:10,620 But I think just any kind of echo of that old cancel culture from the past is 477 00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:14,920 going to be a loser in today's environment. Is anyone looking for any 478 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,100 of this at a concert? 479 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,340 I mean, do I really need a lecture on politics of any stripe right when the 480 00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:22,360 molly is kicking in? 481 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:30,700 It's just so arrogant on both their sides. That's the moment when peace 482 00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:34,060 becomes possible. I don't need Bruce Springsteen to do it either. 483 00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:37,980 You know, Kid Rock's a good friend of mine. 484 00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:41,660 I love his music. We agree on very little politically. 485 00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:44,840 I would go to one of his shows, but it turns into a Trump rally. 486 00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:46,290 I'm not going to that. 487 00:31:46,310 --> 00:31:48,590 Yeah. And I don't want Bruce Springsteen to do it either. 488 00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:50,950 You know, why is he doing this? What's the point? 489 00:31:51,150 --> 00:31:54,390 Because the people who agree with him agree with him. But, you know, there's a 490 00:31:54,390 --> 00:31:59,370 lot of people, I bet, who are Trump voters who like Bruce Springsteen and 491 00:31:59,370 --> 00:32:00,089 always have. 492 00:32:00,090 --> 00:32:02,450 He looks like one of them. He's a working-class guy. 493 00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:06,550 And now they have to, like, go to the concert like, okay, I still like the 494 00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:08,230 music, but, you know, really? 495 00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:11,090 I don't love you as much, Mr. Boss. 496 00:32:11,740 --> 00:32:15,220 I would imagine it would be really hard. I find it to be a bit much, and I agree 497 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:16,139 with his politics. 498 00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:22,860 And I think that Trump is an enormous threat and so on and so forth. But I 499 00:32:22,860 --> 00:32:28,280 guess the question becomes, when you have these enormous platforms, and I get 500 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:33,360 it that it's different to be a musician or an athlete than to have a... 501 00:32:33,770 --> 00:32:36,990 a talk show like this, right, where you can come and you're supposed to be 502 00:32:36,990 --> 00:32:38,070 talking about politics. 503 00:32:38,670 --> 00:32:42,030 But... Yeah, this isn't a sideline for me. This is all I do. 504 00:32:42,450 --> 00:32:43,450 This is it. 505 00:32:44,030 --> 00:32:45,030 Well, 506 00:32:47,390 --> 00:32:49,830 this is your gift, right? This is your basketball. 507 00:32:50,050 --> 00:32:52,010 You are the rock star of here. 508 00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:57,950 And I understand them feeling tremendous pressure from... 509 00:32:58,270 --> 00:33:03,030 people, especially those without that kind of platform, to speak up and to say 510 00:33:03,030 --> 00:33:04,390 something with it. Everywhere? 511 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:06,610 Not... Why? Why everywhere? 512 00:33:06,890 --> 00:33:08,550 What's with the concert? 513 00:33:09,270 --> 00:33:12,990 Look, I mean, this has become a massive grift for people. 514 00:33:13,420 --> 00:33:16,740 in fairness, on both sides of the political spectrum. None of these people 515 00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:20,240 know anything about the history of Israel or Palestine or the Middle East 516 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,260 or Judaism or Islam. They know nothing. 517 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,320 But what they do know is this, is that now it's a big, shiny symbol in our 518 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,740 discourse. And if you hit it in a way that's provocative, you're going to 519 00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:34,940 harvest tweets, downloads, cash, prestige, whatever it is. But the 520 00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:38,820 problem for someone in Kraft's position is that if you look at younger 521 00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:42,040 Americans, they've shifted very hard anti-Israel. 522 00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:47,110 Again, I'm pro-Israel generally, I would say, but the people who are advocating 523 00:33:47,110 --> 00:33:51,150 for my position have to do a better job at reaching young people because 524 00:33:51,150 --> 00:33:55,970 Macklemore, I hate to say, represents a strong majority position for the people 525 00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:58,790 who would be going to an Ed Sheeran concert. All right. Well, good luck with 526 00:33:58,790 --> 00:33:59,790 reaching young people. 527 00:34:00,590 --> 00:34:01,930 Okay, so listen. 528 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:05,480 Don Jr. 529 00:34:05,660 --> 00:34:09,679 is in the news. He got married. The president says he's a changed man. A new 530 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,139 man, I guess he found the one. 531 00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:13,360 Great. And I just want to say congratulations. 532 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,199 You know, we're so at war with each other. If we can't take a moment to just 533 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:21,960 celebrate a human moment that we all can relate to. Everybody gets married. Well, 534 00:34:21,980 --> 00:34:23,080 not me, but, I mean, everybody. 535 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,679 In general, it's a thing we could... Okay. But what's different and a little 536 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,219 unusual about this wedding was that it was financed by the Russians. 537 00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:35,280 Now, we could get back into whether Russia was a hoax. It totally was not 538 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,639 all a hoax. Maybe a little part of it was, but there was lots of Russian 539 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,100 connections. Eric once said, we get most of our money from Russia, but nothing to 540 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:44,480 see here. Okay, let's not go back there. 541 00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:49,900 But the fact that the president's son has this whole... I mean, this guy 542 00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:53,100 rented an island for three days. 543 00:34:53,739 --> 00:34:57,180 it looks a little shady but we thought as a public service because that's what 544 00:34:57,180 --> 00:35:02,640 we do here public service this guy's name was umar kremlev very close ties to 545 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,100 putin just so you know what it might look like if you ever go to a russian 546 00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:10,680 wedding these are some signs you are at a russian wedding would you like to see 547 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:17,660 okay for example um uh the bridesmaids are 548 00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:18,760 all wearing track suits 549 00:35:23,470 --> 00:35:24,950 That is a definite giveaway. 550 00:35:25,970 --> 00:35:29,210 Every guest you meet describes their job as, I am businessman. 551 00:35:33,650 --> 00:35:35,010 It is a little different. 552 00:35:35,330 --> 00:35:38,210 Your limo driver is also the best man. 553 00:35:39,610 --> 00:35:46,590 All the ladies at the singles table are 554 00:35:46,590 --> 00:35:47,590 on steroids. 555 00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:55,690 The something old is Ukraine's borders. 556 00:35:55,950 --> 00:35:56,950 Ouch. 557 00:36:01,430 --> 00:36:07,110 The best man toast is delivered by Steven Seagal. Well, there's a definite 558 00:36:07,110 --> 00:36:08,110 sign. 559 00:36:10,550 --> 00:36:13,850 The bride is glowing because she's from Chernobyl. 560 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,960 And you keep bumping into Tucker Carlson. 561 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:32,000 In the 562 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,640 interest of what I was saying, always reaching out, because I think we're 563 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880 totally on the same page with this. This is what your book is about. 564 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:41,640 I think I've read it. We are very much aligned with this. You have to talk to 565 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,680 people. There's a lot of people, especially on the left, who say you 566 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,700 can't do that. So let me reach out now, because I'm not the only one who's 567 00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:50,180 giving President Trump. 568 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:56,960 some praise here in this town are you listening don here comes the good part 569 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,520 when you start yelling at me this weekend okay um this town is dying it 570 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:08,060 just is i mean american idol is moving to georgia uh it's gonna be called 571 00:37:08,060 --> 00:37:13,380 dancing with your sister but 572 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:17,600 really i mean 573 00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:21,890 I've been... Sometimes I drive on this lot, which has always been one of the 574 00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:24,750 busiest, and there's nobody here. I mean, it happens to be good now because 575 00:37:24,750 --> 00:37:29,790 Dancing with the Stars, I guess, is here. But anyway, Trump wants to secure 576 00:37:29,790 --> 00:37:34,870 federal tax credit for Hollywood to bring back the industry. This is one of 577 00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:36,370 America's great exports. 578 00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:39,510 This is what we do best. We entertain people. 579 00:37:40,510 --> 00:37:43,230 And... I mean... 580 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,160 So he's getting praise from people who are his biggest... Adam Schiff is on his 581 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,420 side with this. I mean, the representative Laura Friedman from the 582 00:37:53,420 --> 00:37:56,940 district says, Trump has been having him as a supporter has made a huge and 583 00:37:56,940 --> 00:37:57,940 tremendous difference. 584 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,200 She took a shot at Biden. She said this would have been better four years ago. 585 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:07,580 So, like, this is the kind of thing where I just think this is our issue 586 00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:13,620 here. Like, just find places. Start in some small place where you can not... We 587 00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:15,320 could just take the hate down, right? 588 00:38:16,290 --> 00:38:20,670 take the hate down and also show that you are in sync with your constituents. 589 00:38:20,750 --> 00:38:23,890 Right. Because a lot of the time, the people on the ground feel totally 590 00:38:23,890 --> 00:38:27,430 different to what their electeds are saying, and they're thinking, I'm paying 591 00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:34,110 you $174,000 to go to Washington and scream about issues that don't affect my 592 00:38:34,110 --> 00:38:39,650 daily life at all. But if you represent people in California, this is it. This 593 00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:43,310 is the Holy Grail. And it builds credibility, and that's what people are 594 00:38:43,310 --> 00:38:44,310 looking for. 595 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,480 in their messengers, you know, their electeds, the people who go on TV, talk 596 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,380 about this. You want this in your friends and in your family, for them to 597 00:38:52,380 --> 00:38:57,540 have actually spent time engaging with what matters to you. And that's why I 598 00:38:57,540 --> 00:39:00,560 wanted to write about this in the book. You know, being a liberal working in 599 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,420 conservative media, I have to do the homework. 600 00:39:03,870 --> 00:39:07,030 for me, and I also do the homework for the people that I'm going to be talking 601 00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:11,690 to, because I want to understand where they're coming from. It would be nice if 602 00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:14,330 I also could telegraph a bit what they're about to say, because you always 603 00:39:14,330 --> 00:39:16,050 want to have a good comeback if it's going to happen. 604 00:39:16,430 --> 00:39:21,510 But, you know, if you get people like Elisa Murkowski, for instance, who, you 605 00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:26,070 know, a very sane lady who voted to convict Donald Trump after the January 606 00:39:26,070 --> 00:39:28,350 6th insurrection, she votes for the big, beautiful bill. 607 00:39:28,830 --> 00:39:30,450 There might be something in there. 608 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,480 right, that is worth engaging with or worth your time. Politics is so much 609 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:38,040 more complicated than the people we were just talking about. 610 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,400 It's not just guys that they know nothing about. 611 00:39:40,860 --> 00:39:45,900 Their attitude seems to be Trump and the people who voted for Trump are the exact 612 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:46,900 same thing. 613 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,720 And they are not the exact same thing. It's so much more complicated than that. 614 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:55,320 77 million people in this country are not Donald Trump. Thank God. But that 615 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,020 is, I mean, you and I... 616 00:39:58,090 --> 00:40:02,230 You and I have pretty much the same experience with the left. I've heard you 617 00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:07,110 say it, that you get treated better by the conservatives on The Five than you 618 00:40:07,110 --> 00:40:09,990 did by... What podcast were you talking about that you were on? 619 00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:16,810 I was... It wasn't a pod... It was a conference, a live thing called 620 00:40:16,810 --> 00:40:18,750 CrookedCon, the guys who do Pod Save America. 621 00:40:19,130 --> 00:40:26,010 Okay. And I went and was surprised by how far left the activist class had 622 00:40:26,010 --> 00:40:31,880 moved. Because I thought that it was a bit like lore from the clips I was 623 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,500 seeing, right? Because I see a lot of how the right sees things. 624 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,660 And so they're going to, you know, put the DSA up on your screen all the time 625 00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:41,740 instead of talking about the more normie Republicans. 626 00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:46,580 And so going and being in a room with a thousand people that, you know, diehard 627 00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:51,140 Democrats or progressives, I would say more, was surprising to me. I was like, 628 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:52,160 oh, actually. 629 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,000 there is some kooky stuff, more kooky stuff than I had thought going on here. 630 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:03,220 And I realized that being center-left is further... Not good 631 00:41:03,220 --> 00:41:06,860 enough. Yeah, I mean, this is like being center-left during the French 632 00:41:06,860 --> 00:41:08,720 Revolution. It doesn't work out very well. 633 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,640 And I'll make the point... 634 00:41:13,180 --> 00:41:14,780 And I'll make a point about California. 635 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:19,260 I think Trump is making a mistake sending any kind of cash or benefit to 636 00:41:19,260 --> 00:41:22,180 the state of California because ultimately that's going to be governed 637 00:41:22,180 --> 00:41:25,520 by a purely extractive political class in this state. 638 00:41:25,780 --> 00:41:29,420 I mean, we're talking about a state that is losing tens of billions of dollars a 639 00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:30,880 year to fraud alone. 640 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,200 Governor Gavin Newsom is proud to say stuff like we're going to give free sex 641 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,360 change surgeries to undocumented migrants. 642 00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:43,350 You can't trust people that have such poor judgment at such an enormous scale 643 00:41:43,350 --> 00:41:47,970 to do the right thing. And the reason, unfortunately, the business here is 644 00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:52,290 disappearing is because it's been recklessly mismanaged for so long. 645 00:41:52,530 --> 00:41:55,490 A lot of these people who would want to stay have to move outward. 646 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,900 Putting more money into a system that's utterly broken and corrupted is not 647 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:04,020 going to improve that system. It's just going to give payouts to people like 648 00:42:04,020 --> 00:42:09,140 Karen Bass and Gavin Newsom and whatever creature comes along the line. 649 00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:14,220 You don't think so? I mean, 650 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,280 yes. 651 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,380 Is this state corrupt? Absolutely. 652 00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:22,520 You know, I mean, look, Trump, please, you're not going to argue that he's not 653 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,520 corrupt. But fraud is also corrupt. 654 00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:28,750 We have it on both sides. I mean, look, his is just so much more out in the 655 00:42:28,750 --> 00:42:32,230 open. But the amount of fraud that goes on, and not just in this state, it goes 656 00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:35,530 on in red states, too, Medicare fraud. But they never talk about it. They never 657 00:42:35,530 --> 00:42:39,120 talk about it, right. And they never talk about, like... how many fraudsters 658 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,940 that he's pardoned or commuted their sentences. The largest healthcare fraud 659 00:42:44,940 --> 00:42:47,420 in our nation's history. 660 00:42:47,820 --> 00:42:53,140 Philip S. Form, $1.3 billion that he robbed seniors of with their Medicare 661 00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:58,100 and their Medicaid, gets his sentence commuted. And you want us to sit around 662 00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:04,960 and rag on Newsom or Tim Walz? I mean, the hypocrisy kills me. 663 00:43:06,810 --> 00:43:12,910 Regular people see it for what it is. I mean, there's literally everything for 664 00:43:12,910 --> 00:43:18,130 sale. The Don Jr., the $170,000 Funfetti cake, right, that gets sent to the 665 00:43:18,130 --> 00:43:19,490 Bahamas for his wedding. 666 00:43:19,790 --> 00:43:21,950 You know, selling pardons. 667 00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:27,560 crypto scams, government contracts for the kids, the Lutnik boys, which we 668 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,640 barely talk about. 669 00:43:28,900 --> 00:43:33,140 Like, that's how you get to a place where Americans associate the word 670 00:43:33,140 --> 00:43:36,680 corrupt with the Republican Party now instead of the Democratic Party. And 671 00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:37,578 that is a change. 672 00:43:37,580 --> 00:43:39,700 Elitist, extreme, corrupt. 673 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,680 That's what they think about this now. That's why the John Ossoff line is so 674 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,600 devastating. They are the elites they pretend to hate. 675 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,680 That's what every Democrat should be running on. That is what... 676 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,040 Those are my people. 677 00:43:52,340 --> 00:43:56,000 The ones I was talking about. What people? Who? The normal people. Right. 678 00:43:56,060 --> 00:43:57,060 Okay. Okay. 679 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:04,600 All right. So, but like, how do we, but you know, you're not, the 680 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,620 question I want to ask you, how do we get these people who are so intolerant 681 00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:12,780 of people on their own side? I always say to the super woke, we voted for the 682 00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:15,080 same person. You're just why she lost. 683 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:16,760 Okay. 684 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,260 We're not the first. Remember Marianne Williamson who ran for president? Oh, 685 00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:24,600 yeah. I love Marianne. She was here fairly recently on the show. She once 686 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,780 said, what does it say that Fox News is nicer to me than the lefties are? What 687 00:44:28,780 --> 00:44:32,960 does it say that the conservatives are nicer to me? So we're not the first ones 688 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,100 to experience this. How do we get those kind of people, these people who are so 689 00:44:37,100 --> 00:44:42,640 secure in their own perfect one true opinion, to, like, open up and be, like, 690 00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:45,260 stop being such hypocrites. You're supposed to be the people who like 691 00:44:45,260 --> 00:44:46,440 tolerance, liberals. 692 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,360 You're supposed to just... I like to call them liberals in theory. 693 00:44:49,740 --> 00:44:50,740 Yeah. 694 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,640 Well, I don't want this to happen, because I want to win elections, because 695 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:57,860 the outcomes are better when Democrats are in charge. 696 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,520 But, frankly, losing is the antidote to this. 697 00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:04,800 And getting on the ballot and being rejected. 698 00:45:05,140 --> 00:45:08,000 I mean, that's what happened... I mean, I support you guys losing as much as 699 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:09,000 possible. 700 00:45:09,500 --> 00:45:11,980 Sounds great, yeah. I love it. 701 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,380 We're on the same team. 702 00:45:14,860 --> 00:45:16,800 I'm glad we can have this moment of unity. 703 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:23,060 But that's what happened, like, Francesca Hong, the crazy lady who was 704 00:45:23,060 --> 00:45:25,860 running in Wisconsin. The one who wanted to get rid of Thanksgiving. I think you 705 00:45:25,860 --> 00:45:30,880 have to have a personality disorder to run as a Democrat. It's like you have a 706 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,020 political movement that has such a complex, and it's going to be dominated 707 00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:39,280 by the people to the fringes. And so to the extent that you... And the 708 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:40,280 Republicans aren't? 709 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,280 I don't think so. No, I think it's different. Yeah, I think, look, I think, 710 00:45:44,380 --> 00:45:49,960 and there are fair criticisms about the Trump inner circle, allegations of 711 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,840 corruption. If that's true, they should be punished to the fullest extent. We 712 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,200 have to be principled, and we have to have the same kind of standard for both 713 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,760 sides. If it's true. But the, but the, but... Okay. 714 00:46:01,580 --> 00:46:03,960 They'll be a process. Democrats will have the House. 715 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:05,240 They'll be a process. 716 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:13,020 They once gave the Homeland Security dude a brown paper bag with $50,000 in 717 00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:14,220 cash in it. I'll have a bag. 718 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,460 Bags full of money? I don't think we have to argue whether it's really 719 00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:23,420 happening. And in that case, I don't know the details, but sure. I mean, if 720 00:46:23,420 --> 00:46:25,620 that is true, it's corruption. You know the details. 721 00:46:25,820 --> 00:46:28,180 All right, I've got to go to New Rules. Thank you. That was very interesting. 722 00:46:37,590 --> 00:46:39,430 Okay, New Rule, now that Cash... 723 00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:45,690 Easy. 724 00:46:46,270 --> 00:46:52,290 Now that Cash... Now that Cash Patel... Now that Cash Patel has lowered FBI 725 00:46:52,290 --> 00:46:55,730 recruiting standards so you can get hired even if you've committed 726 00:46:55,730 --> 00:46:57,530 bestiality. True. 727 00:46:58,130 --> 00:47:02,010 He has to tell us, why does he always look like he just saw a squirrel? 728 00:47:09,390 --> 00:47:12,710 New Rule. Someone has to tell the venture capitalist who said he wanted to 729 00:47:12,710 --> 00:47:17,470 know if he was a badass or not, so he got root canal with no Novocaine, that 730 00:47:17,470 --> 00:47:19,610 there are easier ways to get on a podcast. 731 00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:28,710 Although, sir, I hope this answered your question. 732 00:47:29,110 --> 00:47:32,670 Not what it's like to be a rich guy and playing at being a badass. What's it 733 00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:34,530 like to be poor and have no dental plan? 734 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:42,880 Not funny, but true, true. 735 00:47:43,460 --> 00:47:45,020 The truth matters. Yeah, okay. 736 00:47:45,660 --> 00:47:49,500 Number one, Shalane Woodley, seen here all dressed up for the Emmys and or 737 00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:51,000 cleaning the oven... 738 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:58,620 ...has 739 00:47:58,620 --> 00:48:00,280 to get at least one gay friend. 740 00:48:08,270 --> 00:48:12,470 Someone to tell her this outfit doesn't say boundary-pushing haute couture. It 741 00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:14,370 says, honey, I just strangled the kids. 742 00:48:19,970 --> 00:48:25,570 Uh, new rule, since everybody's mad at Sydney Sweeney for doing ads for a 743 00:48:25,570 --> 00:48:30,130 sports prediction app, she has to do a public service ad to discourage problem 744 00:48:30,130 --> 00:48:34,350 gamblers, the way liquor companies have to warn you to go easy on drinking too 745 00:48:34,350 --> 00:48:38,300 much. Hi, I'm... I'm Sidney Sweeney with a warning about gambling. If a bookie 746 00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:41,280 breaks your arms, you won't be able to masturbate to me. 747 00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:44,700 Something like that. 748 00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:47,360 I'm workshopping. 749 00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:55,420 New rule to the dad on the flight who parades his baby up and down the aisle. 750 00:48:55,540 --> 00:49:00,480 Let me just say, we see you. We see the kid. You're a wonderful person. Now sit 751 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,480 the fuck down. 752 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,340 Sit the fuck down. You're blocking the cart that has my liquor. All right. 753 00:49:16,380 --> 00:49:20,160 And finally, new rule. Let's look on the bright side of things. 754 00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:25,120 Look, I know everyone's in a tizzy about AI and how even the people who work on 755 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,620 it and know best say it's very possibly going to wipe out humanity by the end of 756 00:49:29,620 --> 00:49:32,360 the decade, but that's four more years, right? 757 00:49:33,340 --> 00:49:34,660 Four more years! 758 00:49:34,860 --> 00:49:35,960 Four more... 759 00:49:41,130 --> 00:49:45,370 I'm not going to sugarcoat it. The end of human existence is unwelcome news. 760 00:49:45,630 --> 00:49:47,250 But here's the bright side. 761 00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:52,990 Our nation is now $40 trillion in debt, with, oh, let's round it to about 762 00:49:52,990 --> 00:49:58,050 another $100 trillion in pension, Social Security, and Medicare obligations 763 00:49:58,050 --> 00:50:03,250 looming. And with AI about to also put everyone out of work, frankly, our 764 00:50:03,250 --> 00:50:04,950 system is going to collapse anyway. 765 00:50:05,470 --> 00:50:08,990 Our approach to spending has been so ridiculously unstable. 766 00:50:10,180 --> 00:50:14,820 unsustainable for so long that ending the world is kind of a solution. 767 00:50:17,860 --> 00:50:23,220 Look, this way we can stop pretending as we always have that Washington is gonna 768 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:24,760 have to make tough choices. 769 00:50:25,380 --> 00:50:26,380 Please. 770 00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:31,720 Tough choices are for people who will be around when the bill comes due. That's 771 00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:33,800 not us. We're all Mitch McConnell now. 772 00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:43,060 40 trillion? 773 00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,920 Might as well be 40 gazillion bajillion banana fanifodillion. 774 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:55,360 We obviously have no intention of ever paying it or paying for anything ever. 775 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,320 Take defense spending. 776 00:50:57,580 --> 00:51:02,200 Please. Every year, all you ever had to do was say the word defense. 777 00:51:02,620 --> 00:51:06,660 Whether we're at war, at peace, good times, bad times, didn't matter. Both 778 00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:11,060 parties would always join together to bump it up by at least 10 or 20 billion. 779 00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:16,140 including for obsolete weapons systems, like trillion-dollar jet fighter 780 00:51:16,140 --> 00:51:18,800 programs in the age of $300 drones. 781 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:26,140 And now Trump, the guy who said he'd get rid of the debt very quickly... but 782 00:51:26,140 --> 00:51:29,660 tosses out checks like paper towels in Puerto Rico. 783 00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:42,180 He wants to raise defense spending from a trillion a year to 1.5 trillion in one 784 00:51:42,180 --> 00:51:45,560 year, a 50% raise in one year. Because why not? 785 00:51:45,820 --> 00:51:49,980 What don't you get about mankind's having a going-out-of-business sale and 786 00:51:49,980 --> 00:51:51,040 money isn't real? 787 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:53,020 Crypto proved that. 788 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,560 Spending more on COVID than World War II proved that. The one thing right-wing 789 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:03,580 corporations and the left-wing hippies can agree on is, fuck money, you can't 790 00:52:03,580 --> 00:52:04,860 make me think it's real. 791 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:06,640 Have you... 792 00:52:11,820 --> 00:52:16,100 Have you seen the platform from the Democratic Socialists of America? 793 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:22,180 They ask us to imagine a future without capitalism, where your job isn't just a 794 00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:27,200 job to pay bills. And then they say, speaking of bills, you don't really have 795 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:28,200 them anymore. 796 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,260 Whoo, no bills. 797 00:52:30,620 --> 00:52:31,620 I'm listening. 798 00:52:33,900 --> 00:52:36,400 I'm listening to insanity, but I'm listening. 799 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,740 Their website says in the future, you don't pay a mortgage or have a landlord 800 00:52:47,740 --> 00:52:50,080 because comfortable housing is a human right. 801 00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,620 Wow. So the government pays for all housing for everyone everywhere? 802 00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:57,280 That sounds like it could be a little pricey. 803 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:03,460 Oh, not just housing. Also health insurance, food, education, medicine, 804 00:53:03,620 --> 00:53:07,280 transportation, free daycare, free universal daycare. 805 00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:08,900 Just day? 806 00:53:09,140 --> 00:53:10,140 What about... 807 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:14,060 What about night? 808 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,420 What are parents supposed to do at night? See their kids? 809 00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:28,500 So, I mean, just how much will this heaven on earth cost? 810 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:34,960 Well, the estimates are between $72 trillion and $212 trillion, which, of 811 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,780 course, Debbie Downer economists say will cause astronomical inflation, 812 00:53:39,020 --> 00:53:41,860 whatever. Well, then give everyone more money. 813 00:53:42,380 --> 00:53:43,380 isn't that hard. 814 00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:48,440 Think of it as stimulus for the wheelbarrow industry. 815 00:53:50,780 --> 00:53:57,480 But... just stop worrying about money. It gives you those fine 816 00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:58,480 lines. 817 00:54:00,060 --> 00:54:01,720 Like, take L.A. County. 818 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:03,680 Something bad happened here. 819 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:09,300 Kids in foster care were abused in decades past, going back to 1959. 820 00:54:09,660 --> 00:54:10,860 And now L.A. 821 00:54:11,210 --> 00:54:15,270 is going to give almost $5 billion to the victims, even though experts say 822 00:54:15,270 --> 00:54:19,990 this may very well bankrupt the county and thus the people who live here today, 823 00:54:20,190 --> 00:54:24,970 who feel bad about the whole thing but didn't themselves commit sex crimes in 824 00:54:24,970 --> 00:54:26,010 the Eisenhower era. 825 00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:29,950 But we're going to do it anyway because it's the right thing to do in a world 826 00:54:29,950 --> 00:54:32,290 where money is free and consequences don't exist. 827 00:54:33,210 --> 00:54:37,630 People, money is there to be given away. 828 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:43,380 I mean, it's not really there, of course. It's all gone, but... We're 829 00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:44,500 still giving it away. 830 00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:49,480 How else are the 40% of adult Americans who don't work supposed to live? Yeah, 831 00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,900 did you know that? That roughly 60% of Americans work, and 40%, what's the 832 00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:56,200 word? Don't. 833 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,800 Including 6 million working-age men who don't work and are not looking. 834 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,680 No getting on LinkedIn for them. 835 00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:15,690 They're... They're home playing Call of Duty at 11 in the morning. 836 00:55:17,230 --> 00:55:21,670 But good news for them, Trump said last week everybody in America is getting 837 00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:27,510 five grand, which adds another trillion on the card, but one more trillion, why 838 00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:28,510 even mention it? 839 00:55:29,170 --> 00:55:34,290 And if you think a 5,000-per-person giveaway is crazy, what would be your 840 00:55:34,290 --> 00:55:35,750 opinion of five million? 841 00:55:36,300 --> 00:55:40,880 Because in 2021, the San Francisco Reparations Plan recommended paying 842 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:46,920 every eligible Black adult that amount, plus a house for $1 and the elimination 843 00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:52,560 of all personal debt and a guaranteed income of nearly $100,000 for 250 years. 844 00:55:52,700 --> 00:55:56,360 And let me just say, not only do I support this proposal, I'm willing to 845 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,520 identify as whatever it takes to get it. 846 00:56:07,340 --> 00:56:10,540 Imagine what you'd get if you're black and got diddled in foster care. 847 00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:15,820 Look, folks. 848 00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:18,740 We got four more years. 849 00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:21,860 I say fuck it. Let's go out strong. 850 00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:24,940 I mean, am I right? 851 00:56:29,260 --> 00:56:33,560 What are we saving it for, the cockroaches? I say we spend every last 852 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,640 fucking penny, go full leaving Las Vegas. 853 00:56:37,620 --> 00:56:44,520 Why have humanity go extinct with good credit? When the aliens pick over our 854 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,300 charred remains, I want them saying, wow, these deadbeats owed everybody 855 00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:49,300 money. 856 00:56:56,620 --> 00:57:00,660 last transmission from planet Earth to be a text from Citibank that says, 857 00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,120 America, your balance is below $25. 858 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,680 Thank you very much. That's our show. I want to thank Christopher Ruffo, Jessica 859 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,240 Talab, and Kevin Roos. Club Random drops every Monday on YouTube or listen 860 00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:14,400 wherever you get your podcasts. 861 00:57:14,740 --> 00:57:16,700 Now go watch Overtime on YouTube. 862 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120 Thank you very much. Thank you for doing that.